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4F Echo Revenge

Throne Deck By
Vomii

+41

Cost Curve

Type

Faction

Information

Intro
This is a combo deck that uses Echo + Revenge synergy. Although people often refer to it as "Echo Makto", we don't need necessarly have to close the game by having a board full of echo Inquisitor Makto: sometimes we will just give echo to Piercing Grief or Stonepowder Alchemist and aggressively Dark Return and Rise to the Challenge for it, which results in a lot of card draw, life gain and damage.

Matchups
This is a fun deck to play and if piloted correctly it can be competitive in a lot of matchups.
* Aggro: This is possibly the worst matchup for us, because we don't run much interaction before turn 3. We want to stay alive as much as possible with Piercing Grief until we can Harsh Rule. Most of the time we don't have time to use Rise of the Challenge on Elysian Pathfinder or even Inquisitor Makto: we need to focus on removal and gaining life.
* Midrange: This is an OK matchup. We have a lot of answers for their early fatties and we need to balance our time between removing them, gaining life and setup our combos. In this matchup it's critical to use our life total as a resource: sometimes we will need to eat some damage so that we can play cards like Elysian Pathfinder on five.
* Control: This is where the deck shines. Most of the control decks generates card advantage with tools like Wisdom of the Elders, Auric Runehammer, Crystalline Chalice etc.. Once we get our combo going we outvalue them a lot, until a point where they just can't win. If you are familiar with math, this matchup feels like linear growth (them) vs exponential growth (us).

Influence
When people look at a 4F deck they think it's a meme deck: quirky, inconsistent and with an influence requirement that is difficult to hit. This is far from the truth for this deck.
The influence requirement is FJJSST, which is sometimes you won't hit on five, but it's OK: we'll very unlikely have a hand full of cards we can't cast. We aim to hit FJST before Turn 5 and really only need JJ for Harsh Rule and SS for Inquisitor Makto.
We run 25 Power + 4 Seek Power + 2 Find the way. In addition to that we have 4 Quarry that can help us fetch what we need, and if a destiny unit is in the void we can always use Dark Return as a cantrip.

General notes
If one of your units with Revenge dies it should come back fast enough via Devour, Quarry and Rise to the Challenge. If the unit is in the discard pile it can be fetched via Dark Return instead. Since the unit will have Destiny it means that regardless how you fetched it, you will draw one card. If the unit has Echo, you will play two units and draw two additional cards instead.
Be aware that if you decide to play Piercing Grief and Devour it in the same turn there is a 20% chance that it comes back immidiatly and we have a loss of value.
It's very important to know that if we cast Elysian Pathfinder and the top unit of our deck has echo then the next non-echo unit will receive it instead, so we don't really need to be conservative with playing the card.

This deck is not particularly easy to play, given the big amount of decisions you have to make. You can missplay a lot by Quarry or Rise to the Challenge the wrong cards, or even waste Dark Return early. For example, if you are not under much pressure, you should focus on finding Elysian Pathfinder as early as possible, instead of Rise to the Challenge for a Makto. Additionaly when possible you want to save Dark Return to bring back an echo destiny unit, to either gain significant card draws or just close the game.

Our archenemies
Steward of the Past and Statuary Maiden can be a problem, but we can deal with them via 4 Slay, 4 Harsh Rule, 4 Banish and 2 Vara's Choice.
Silence is annoying, but if they waste it too early they will never have enough of it to deal with our echo units. In some matchups you want to have 2 power open for Devour in order to preventt their silence to happen.

Changelog
* v0.1: Cut Inspire for more power via Vara's Favour and fix mana base in favour of time and fire
* v0.2: Cut Scheme for Banish (more answers to big early fatties, Steward of the Past, Statuary Maiden, nasty relics) and fix mana base in favour of time.
* v0.3: Cut Suffocate for more Banish (we found it more flexible and we don't mind going deeper into time now), cut one Dark Return (a lot of copies early can get clunky) and one Inquisitor Makto for two copies of Vara's Choice for early interaction, a way to deal with Dawnwalker and additional answer to Steward of the Past + Statuary Maiden. Now that we are deeper into time we replace 2 Vara's Favour with 2 Find the Way to improve fixing. Mana base fixed in favour of time.
* v0.3.1: Decrease the amount of seats in the deck from 18 to 16.

Cards that didn't make the cut
This is a list of cards that didn't make the cut but could be potentially considered:
* Dark Wisp: Synergizes with Devour and stops 2-1 units early. Unfortunately we do not like when this card gets Echo, so we'd rather not play it.
* Annihilate: Deals with Steward of the Past and midrange beatdown like Sandstorm Titan,Impending Doom and Crimson Firemaw. We prefer Banish and Suffocate because they can hit both Statuary Maiden and Steward of the Past/
* Hero of the People: Synergyzes with Piercing Grief and can get their revenge refreshed after they come back with destiny. I tried it and I was very disappointed by it. It requires you hold back your Piercing Grief and play both of them on turn 5, but there are already a lot of cards you want to play on turn 5 anyway.
* Protect: A good way to deal with Silence, but we prefer 4 Devour instead as we don't usually care too much if a unit dies.
* Torch: Excellent early removal, but we can't realiably have fire influence in the first turns. It synergizes well with Piercing Grief because if they have a blocker that won't die to them it will most likely be finished by this removal. It also helps a ton vs the Aggro matchup and give us some form of reach, so I might try it out at some point.
* Sleepless Night: Costs too much, we prefer to rely on less expensive cards that help us fetching Destiny units and drawing cards. Our combos also draws us a bunch of cards, so we don't really need more card draw once we get the combo running.
* Excavate: Recommended by flippyflop. It could potentially replace Scheme and act as Dark Return number 5 and 6 that could help us close games with recurring Piercing Grief. After a some extensive testing I decided to not include this card in the deck.
* Watchwing Conscript: Recommended by flippyflop. This is an interesting card, but I don't think there is space for it in the deck at the moment as we don't really want more units, expecially big ones. It could replace Inquisitor Makto if you don't own four copies of it.
* Scheme: This was included as a 2 of in the original list. It's an excellent way to bring back your destiny units or just fetch for power and Pathfinder early in the game. After some testing I decided to replace it with Banish, a card that helps us against Steward of the Past, Statuary Maiden, Relics like Crystalline Chalice and big fatties like Sandstorm Titan and Impending Doom. At some point I'd still like to find space for 2 copies of this card.
* Purify: We can't relay on FT early, so we prefer Vara's Choice here.
* Vara's Favor: It can help with early 1 drops and it can remove Aegis. Since we are deeper into Time we prefer Find the Way instead, to give us more fixing flexibility.
* Plague: It could help us a ton vs aggro and it give us more answer to pre obelisk dawnwalkers. We don't have a board early game, so even slow decks like Chalice can start a beatdown with a lot of small units. This card can help us reduce the opponent clock in these circumstances, until we find our Harsh Rule or get our combos going. I will begin testing this card soon.

Details

Shiftstone Cost
Does not include campaign cost
23,350

Premium Cost
133,600

Influence Requirements
1 3 2 2

Power Sources
7 8 13 13 16

Power Calculator
Shiftstoned Icon View Deck on Shiftstoned

Deck Rarities
11 40 12 3

Card Types
15 0 35 0 25

Contains Cards From Campaigns
Jekk's Bounty [Set1001]

Archetype
Combo

Updated
November 19, 2017

Added
November 9, 2017

Views
28,555

Eternal Version
The Pale Riders

BBCode For Comments

Deck URL

Revisions (Since last major patch) November 19, 2017


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Comments

SlothFacts Eternal Version: 1.27
Hi! I love this deck, and so far it's maintained a good winrate for me since the debut of Set 3 without any changes! But I was wondering if maybe it made sense to cycle in some of the new Power cards for the Scout effect? Every time I think it through, it seems like they'd hurt more than they'd help, given the way this deck is constructed. But I was wondering what you thought?
Vomii Eternal Version: 1.27
Hey, thanks for the feedback. Since set 3 was released I haven't had a lot of time to test the deck with some new cards. So far I've been trying with -2 Vara's Choice -1 Devour +3 Wanted Poster and +6 crests -6 seats and I've been happy with the changes. Depleted power doesn't hurt too much in the first couple of turns, since we don't have much interaction anyway and scout/card draw is very powerful while echo destiny units are sitting in the top 10 cards of the deck.
SlothFacts Eternal Version: 1.27
Thanks, I'll give it a try! Little scared of losing Vara's Choice, but I haven't played around with Wanted Poster enough anyway.
TuukS Eternal Version: 1.26.3
This is so satisfying xD filling the board with Inquisitor Makto brings joy to my heart.
Bettik Eternal Version: 1.26.3
I just don't understand how a deck that admits aggro is a weak match up for it is doing so well. Aggro is the bread and butter of this entire game. Especially when trying to climb the ladder. Not saying this deck isn't doing well. Just a bit confused why.
Bettik Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Also, I would like to add a little someone to your list of archenemies: Feln Bloodcaster. Dear god, that was a mortifying match.
TooCleverByHalf Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Just wanted to say thanks. Your deck is good fun Vomii!
Vomii Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback!
splinterofchaos Edited Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Have you tried Katra, the Devoted or Bloodrite Kalis in this deck? Neither works well while setting up (since Katra is too vulnerable to removal), but I find they gain me the advantage during late-game board stalls and help to capitalize on being ahead.
Vomii Eternal Version: 1.26.3
I haven't tried running those cards. Kalis is an interesting choice, I might test it out! Thanks!
Pentacles Edited Eternal Version: 1.26.3
I agree with VaylinArcher, the power is spot on. I'm impressed how consistent the deck is considering it is a 4 faction deck.

Sadly, this deck is so popular now that there are dedicated counter decks and normal ladder decks are starting to tech against it with rain of frogs and vara's favor type of cards.

Either way, this deck is insanely fun and definitely worth the 2 Maktos I crafted for it.
rocketshot Eternal Version: 1.26.3
I think its find the way, if you don't have it on turn 2 it seems to cripple the flow of the deck.
Like i said, I haven't given up on it completely,but I have noticed
the deck not working quite as well for me.
Thanks for continuing to update this deck .I really like its play style!

rocketshot Eternal Version: 1.26.3
I am finding that the recent changes seemed to have slowed down the deck some.
And the addition of vara's choice have proved in effective to me.
I would like to what others think about this.
Going back to previous version but still going to try the current one
occasionally.

Pentacles Edited Eternal Version: 1.26.3
I haven't updated to it yet, but I think the power base is fine in v0.2 and find the way is probably not needed. The change I may implement would be the makto and dark return for 2 banishes or possibly the suffocate->vara's choice tech.

Then I guess that would require a bit more time influence so I may have to switch some other things up too I guess.
Vomii Eternal Version: 1.26.3
What is slowing down the deck in your opinion? The inclusion of Find the Way or more copies of Banish?
I can see Find the Way being a bit clunky sometimes, but it's not like we have much to do on turn 2 usually and I think it gives us a little bit of consistency on fixing and the ability of getting on 5 power by turn 5. At the moment I am testing with Power Stone instead, which might sounds very weird given this is a 4F deck, but in the ~20 games I played today it has proven to be a really good inclusion.
Nicto Eternal Version: 1.26.3
I was happily playing my Nicto Control deck the past week, suddenly this silly Echo Destiny deck appeared and killed all my fun because I have like 10% winchance vs it. I had 55-60% winchance on average now I am below 50. Guess I will have to stop playing Eternal now. :(
IamJoeCell Eternal Version: 1.26.3
This deck has been wrecking me on ladder (blue armory usually). Took a stab at building it but happy to have the official list. Thanks for posting!

Vomii Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Thanks for the feedback! Yeah armory (Blue, Tavrod or just traditional) is a great matchup for this deck. I'm very happy when I see the opponent playing a fire sigil turn 1 and they follow up with a Seek Power instead of an Oni Ronin :D
Solhawk Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Great deck! I've played the 3 color Hero Revenge, and 3 color Makto Echo which play similarly. I recently got beat by 4 color Echo Revenge and had to dig more into it. I'm glad I found yours.

I currently have 4 Blistersting Wasps, but I may swap them out for 4 vara's favor. Here's my version: Maktecho 4F - UPDATED
Vomii Edited Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Wasps are OK as early blockers I guess but sometimes you are just playing Elysian Pathfinder with no destiny cards in the top 10 of your deck, and it would suck to hit a Blistersting Wasp. I would also not advise cutting power (We have a lot of 5 drops and given the amount of card draw we generate we often want to play multiple cards in the same turn, which requires power) and Rise to the Challenge (We make our combos much harder to generate).
Thanks for the feedback and please keep me updated with your changes!
Solhawk Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Made Diamond for the first time with this deck!!! Here's my version: Maktecho 4F - UPDATED

I kept your influence after trying a couple of different things. Yours worked best.

I did drop the Find the Ways. I just kept getting them at the wrong time. I added in another Vara's Choice and another Inquisitor Makto.
Jdorty Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Added 4x Xenan Cultist and took out 2x devour 2x rise. Liking it so far.
Vomii Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Interesting, I've never considered Xenan Cultist. The card has some synergy with the deck, but I would hate to see Elysian Pathfinder giving echo to it instead of all the other revenge cards we run in the deck.
tazzadar Eternal Version: 1.26.3
I'm not sure it's that bad - means double the bonuses and is less vulnerable to removal. Have been playing your version for 2 days - very happy with it. Thank you and keep up the good work :)
rocketshot Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Great deck! and thanks for the updates!
Your right,its not a easy deck to pilot but after playing( and losing) some games,
I was able to learn how it works and now I take great pleasure in beating decks like chalice!
Vomii Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Thanks for the feedback. You are right, this deck requires some practice. At the beginning for example I was aggressively Rise to the Challenge for Inquisitor Makto. Now expecially against Midrange or Control I find myself valueing early Rise to the Challenge for Elysian Pathfinder a lot more!
Wok Eternal Version: 1.26.3
FeelsGood winning late game vs Chalice.

https://i.imgur.com/DQGSv3l.jpg
Vomii Eternal Version: 1.26.3
It does! Oh, you are drawing a card a turn - That's cute! I am drawing 4 a turn, playing a bunch of creatures, hitting you in the face and even gaining life! As I mentioned in the description of the deck the matchup feels a lot like linear growth (Chalice) vs exponential growth (us).
Lezio Eternal Version: 1.26.3
хуже колоды еще не встречал,тупой слив
BadBug Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Hi, thanks for sharing the deck !
Noob question - How can I control the set of echo on Makto without Excavate ?
The others draws are instantly drawing something and not put it on the top of the deck..
Vomii Edited Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Hi! I am not sure I understand the question. If you have an destiny echo Inquisitor Makto in the top 10 cards of your deck you can fetch for it in different ways:
* Quarry
* Scheme
* Rise to the Challenge
* Simple card draw via Dark Return an echo destiny unit or Devour.

Let me know if this answers your question!
BadBug Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Thanks !
JTJag Eternal Version: 1.26.3
As someone who has been playing a lot of Makto Echo myself, Excavate is an extremely good card for this deck, and I run it 4-of. When you excavate a destiny card it's a free body off the top of your deck, and you can also excavate used Harsh Rules and other removal when you're behind on board control.
VaylinArcher Eternal Version: 1.26.3
The problem with Excavate is that it is not an immediate play of a destiny card. Granted it does give you the ability to draw up any card, but there's been a lot of matches where I needed that destiny echo alchemist to seal up the game.
JTJag Eternal Version: 1.26.3
It's a fast spell, so you can play it at the end of your opponent's turn. If you excavate a destiny card in this way, it effectively is an immediate play,.
VaylinArcher Eternal Version: 1.26.3
But if you top deck an excavate and need to set up units for your opponents next turn (post harsh rule) you have to wait a turn for excavate to take effect...which could lose you the game. Again, I do see the value in it for this deck, but I think dark return provides better value in a top deck scenario.
Vomii Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Thanks for the feedback. I am testing with -2 Scheme +2 Excavate at the moment and it's working fine. I'll possibly update the list after I finish testing. What I miss most about losing Scheme is the ability of casting it really at any stage of the game (Early it can help finding your combo pieces), while Excavate requires some setup (A destiny unit in the void, possibly with Echo).
JTJag Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Yeah, but Excavate can be a game winner. Not to mention, late in the game you can use it to create an immediate Echo combo: play Excavate on your turn to put a non-echoed Piercing Grief or Stonepowder Alchemist on top of the deck and then immediately play an Elysian Pathfinder.
VaylinArcher Eternal Version: 1.26.3
This deck is very well done and the power base is spot on I think. This is so much fun to play and I'm finding it surprisingly consistent. The only times I've gotten stuck is with Time on mulligan or not getting any units. Being liberal with the Dark Returns on any destiny unit in the void helps with digging into the deck. Amazing deck...so much fun to play. My favorite is punishing opponents for playing vanquish on an echoed Makto by rising for it. Feels so wrong lol.
Vomii Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Thanks for the feedback - I'm glad you liked the deck!
VaylinArcher Eternal Version: 1.26.3
I've actually been seeing this on ladder. Not sure if you're the original poster or not, but it has some traction. I actually saw Y0ttabyte streaming play of it as well.
Vomii Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Yeah I am the original poster and Y0ttabyte wanted to play a meme deck so I reccomended this!
VaylinArcher Edited Eternal Version: 1.26.3
So far in casual, this deck is lights out. On ladder, I'm like 50%. Aggro is problematic unless I have the griefs and alchemists. Chalice is a toss up depending on how much echo I can drop vs the silence. Feln isn't too bad if you can keep stewie off the board of course. I am running the 2 conscripts but they have yet to do any real work for me. I might swap them out for 2 protects since I can rise for whatever is needed. Thoughts?
Vomii Eternal Version: 1.26.3
I don't like including Protect to be honest. What did you remove to make space for Watchwing Conscript? Inquisitor Makto I guess? My latest list includes 2 Banish that replace the 2 Scheme I was running, let me know how it works out for you. I foundBanish very helpful vs Chalice, Armory and Feln Control.

I'm not surprised you find Aggro problematic, I've experienced the same unfortunately. I have a decent winrate against Feln and Chalice, in these games I like to rush Elysian Pathfinder as I am not really afraid of being blowed up early anyway.
VaylinArcher Edited Eternal Version: 1.26.3
I actually removed 1 each of Alchemist and Makto. Scheme is just so good for digging...multiple times I was able to move unneeded cards to the bottom. However, Banish brings way more value. It gives chalice and steward removal which is huge. It also gives some much needed aggro defence. As much as I like the schemes for digging, I think I like the idea of banish more.

I did get the destiny echo combo on the conscripts which was cool, but the game was already lost (New tomorrow match). I do like having that aegis come out against chalice and, with banish, SST removal now becomes a thing.
VaylinArcher Eternal Version: 1.26.3
So far in casual, this deck is lights out. On ladder, I'm like 50%. Aggro is problematic unless I have the briefs and alchemists. Chalice is a toss up depending on how much echo I can drop vs the silence. Feln isn't too bad if you can keep stewie off the board of course. I am running the 2 conscripts but they have yet to do any real work for me. I might swap them out for 2 protects since I can rise for whatever is needed. Thoughts?
flippyflop Edited Eternal Version: 1.26
i've been seeing a few iterations on a similar theme lately, but i think rise to the challenge is a pretty fresh piece of tech for the revenge decks.

some of those decks:
https://eternalwarcry.com/decks/details/uSqcrgqmPDo/revenge-crown-update
https://eternalwarcry.com/decks/details/l7Cn1Ixmu4A/makto-the-student
https://eternalwarcry.com/decks/details/rmvTxzWZs_U/matrollol

any thoughts on running an Excavate or two? it could help with fixing your mana but also allow you to place an already exhausted destiny unit back on top of your deck from the void.

i see how early white is not exactly a reality in this deck, but there may be some way to augment your manabase to allow for a couple Find the Way, just depends how crucial fixing is early on - if there's some way to tread water with life gain in the mean time.

Watchwing Conscript is a pretty powerful card but i can see not including it for the sake of maintaining curve/aggression.
VaylinArcher Edited Eternal Version: 1.26.3
Watchwing Conscript is such an amazing card, but I don't know how you find room. You would probably have to go down to FPS only. Although, an echoed Conscript would be hard to deal with. And then returning it from your void. You could maybe drop 1 Alchemist and 1 Makto to make room for 2. I think I might try that.
Vomii Edited Eternal Version: 1.26
Excavate sounds interesting, I could possibly try cutting the 2 Scheme for that.
Find the Way is a card I don't really want in the deck, as we are only splashing Time for 1 5-drop card anyway, so we don't care too much about having time early in the game. Early fixing is not that crucial: before turn 5 I am fine with JSF.
Watchwing Conscript is a card I never considered before, I'll possibly do some testing with it.